Menu

480i Problem

Home Forums OSSC OSSC – Discussion and support 480i Problem

This topic contains 12 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  y0da 1 month, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #19119

    SegaFanboy
    Participant

    Hello,
    when I try to output any 480i signal, it doesn’t work. I get this:
    https://img3.picload.org/image/dagarpai/img_20180208_205023.jpg480i passthru
    This is what is looks like with passthru. All other modes don’t work. x2 jumps up and down like crazy, x3 and x4 give no picture at all. I have a Samsung UE55 JU7500 and the problem occours on every console outputting 480i. I tried with Dreamcast, Wii and Gamecube (all Pal). Genesis is even worse, I get no picture at all (Sonic 2 MP).

    #19121

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Your monitor doesn’t have a deinterlacer so you can’t use passthrough.

    X2 jumps up and down like crazy.. how crazy? Bob deinterlacing will always have some flicker, because of how it works.

    Did you change pre/post coast levels for the Megadrive as per the Wiki? http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=Sega_Genesis

    #19127

    SegaFanboy
    Participant

    Damn, I knew I forgot something. Ok, Genesis works with the wiki settings. It is really heavy flickering, it looks like it is moving one pixel up and down all the time. I always heard that the 480i handling of the OSSC is bad, but that bad?

    When I plug in my consoles directly into the scart socket of my old 40″ HDTV it looks way better and doesn’t have flickering. OSSC looks worse. Is the TV deinterlacer better then the OSSC’s?

    #19129

    Harrumph
    Participant

    Is the TV deinterlacer better then the OSSC’s?

    Define better?
    Yes for image quality, no for lag.

    #19131

    SegaFanboy
    Participant

    For me x2 Bob deinterlacing is unplayable, it gives me headache. Everybody here seems to recommend passthru because of the flickering.

    But I don’t get why my TV can’t handle the resolution. It’s a TV, there must be a deinterlacer in it. The DC puts out a 576i signal, just like normal SD TV does. Why can I watch TV in 576i, but not Dreamcast in 576i?

    #19133

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    But I don’t get why my TV can’t handle the resolution. It’s a TV, there must be a deinterlacer in it. The DC puts out a 576i signal, just like normal SD TV does. Why can I watch TV in 576i, but not Dreamcast in 576i?

    You would think this would be the case, but it isn’t. TVs don’t support all advertised resolutions over all input types. For example, my Samsung LCD from 2009 will actually take and display 240p, but only over component–if I send it 240p over anything else, like composite or HDMI, it tells me the mode isn’t supported.

    How are you feeding your TV 576i from TV? I assume not via HDMI?

    #19134

    SegaFanboy
    Participant

    Just the built in TV-Tuner. I live in Europe, so SDTV is 576i. And the manual says, that both 576i and 480i are supported. But I think it’s just like your TV, that 480i/576i only work with the TV-Tuner or component input.

    I don’t get what Samsung is doing. This TV comes with a composite input in 2015, my 20 year old Metz tube TV doesn’t have this obsolute input anymore. They add useless inputs nobody needed 20 years ago, but they cut costs by not supporting standart PAL and NTSC resolution on all inputs. This is ridiculous.

    #19146

    paulb_nl
    Participant

    Damn, I knew I forgot something. Ok, Genesis works with the wiki settings. It is really heavy flickering, it looks like it is moving one pixel up and down all the time. I always heard that the 480i handling of the OSSC is bad, but that bad?

    You posted that you have a tube TV but yet you post that the 480i on the OSSC is that bad? It should look very similar to your tube TV. In fact the tube should give you more headaches than an LCD. Are you sure its not flickering more than 1 pixel up and down?

    #19149

    SegaFanboy
    Participant

    I would always prefer the Tube TV over the OSSC with 480i. I know, that comparing a 27″ CRT to a 55″ LCD isn’t fair, but 480iX2 Bob just looks terrible. Sadly it seems to be normal. I watched some youtube footage and it looks like on my TV. Text jumping up and down all the time.

    I never cared much about pixel-perfect retro gaming, I put in everything with the best possible cable into my old TVs (27″ Tube and 40″ Samsung LCD) and it looked good enough for me. But 480i with OSSC looks worse then it ever did. My goal was to connect everything to my new 55″ TV with the OSSC, but it seems I need to keep the Tube TV.

    Did I understand it right, that when I would use passthru the TV gets a 480i signal, deinterlaces the picture itself and adds a lot more input lag?

    #19199

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Did I understand it right, that when I would use passthru the TV gets a 480i signal, deinterlaces the picture itself and adds a lot more input lag?

    That’s correct, you can have nice picture quality or low input lag with interlace content on progressive displays (HDTVs/Monitors), you can’t have both.

    That said, bob deinterlacing shouldn’t look /that/ bad. Like Paulb_nl says above, it’s actually quite similar to a CRT (go try using Amiga Workbench in interlace on a real CRT, tell me that doesn’t flicker!)

    So yeah bob deinterlace will have some shimmer/flicker to it, which will vary in intensity depending what you’re displaying, but the very first flat panel displays used bob deinterlacing, as did the XRGB3 (in B1 mode anyway)…

    I Guess sophisticated TV deinterlacers have just spoiled you all 😀

    The king of videogame deinterlacers is still the XRGB Mini really, that’s probably the best trade off between input lag (20ms) and picture quality (really good, flicker free).

    #20297

    y0da
    Participant

    Hello everyone.

    The bob deinterlacing is fine on my monitor BENQ RL2755HM.
    However, when I record on my game capture device (Startech USB3HDCAP) the picture jumps up and down a bit.
    You notice it when there is some text and I know it is related to the bob deinterlacing method.

    So here comes my question : Will some of the solutions above fix my problem without adding lag ? (I am very lag sensitive)

    – HD Box pro (for the PS2)
    – GC Video Plug n Play (for the gamecube) https://zzblogs.wixsite.com/home
    – GCHD from Eon gaming (for the gamecube) https://eongchd.wixsite.com/gchd-by-eon

    Is there another solution or will I just have to get used to it?

    Thank you. Have a nice day.

    #20302

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    The bob deinterlacing is fine on my monitor BENQ RL2755HM.
    However, when I record on my game capture device (Startech USB3HDCAP) the picture jumps up and down a bit.
    You notice it when there is some text and I know it is related to the bob deinterlacing method.

    So that’s what bob deinterlacing does; it takes each interlaced frame and fills in the missing scanlines with blank data, so a 480i image image gets presented as 480p, but doing so creates a somewhat annoying bob effect (hence the name). What you see on your capture device is how it normally presents to people; it’s strange to me that your BenQ monitor handles it just fine.

    Two things I would try:
    * Passthrough for 480i sources: Your capture software can probably perform some good-quality deinterlacing (two-frame or whatever looks good to you), so sending it the original 480i, or even a line-doubled 960i, would be ideal. The downside is that your monitor may not appreciate the interlaced signal, especially over HDMI.
    * Applying deinterlacing with your capture software to the 480p signal: I’m not sure if it’ll allow you to do this, but you might be able to have your capture software force deinterlacing to make the bob-deinterlaced 480p signal from the OSSC look a bit less bobby (or completely blank).

    – HD Box pro (for the PS2)

    Fudoh said on AVS Forum that it’s an okay device (not bad, just okay). My concerns with it would be not being able to get proper TV resolutions out of it (it’s not clear from the product page that it actually supports normal TV resolutions for output, let alone proper 480p/720×480), and it’s also not clear if it will simply do deinterlacing without messing with the input resolution.

    – GC Video Plug n Play (for the gamecube) https://zzblogs.wixsite.com/home
    – GCHD from Eon gaming (for the gamecube) https://eongchd.wixsite.com/gchd-by-eon

    Which of these you get will be to your preference. I understand the EON GCHD will be more stable, as it also plugs/anchors into the analogue AV port. I would be hesitant to purchase one of the zeldaxpro GCVideo plug-n-plays due to the drama related to his earlier designs.

    I swear there was a plug-n-play module in development that was shaped like the EON GCHD, but also offered simultaneous analogue output, but I’m having trouble finding information about it at the moment.

    #20327

    y0da
    Participant

    First of all thank you for your reply.
    Passthrough 480i does not have the bobbing effect but the capture is really messed up.

    View post on imgur.com

    View post on imgur.com

    I spent 2 hours trying to fix it, but nothing works.
    According to this post,

    Capture card compatibility report thread


    passthrough should work when setting TX mode to HDMI but then my capture device just crashes( same capture device, same drivers)

    Applying the deinterlacing with the software just messes up the image a bit more. It does not work.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.