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Companion video processor for the OSSC?

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  ErebusMaligan 8 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 28 total)
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  • #17464

    SirRockALot
    Participant

    I think most would agree that the biggest weakness of the OSSC is the spotty display compatibility. I’ve of course read about people having good results with i.e. various DVDO devices, but those are getting rare / expensive and are out of production, unsupported etc. So not really a solution. But just having a look at what’s out there in terms of HDMI-to-HDMI video processors…

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=16642&fct=fct_video-input_2106%7chdmi%2bfct_video-input_2106%7chdmi-1.4a%2bfct_video-input_2106%7chdmi-2.0%2bfct_video-output_2107%7chdmi%2bfct_video-output_2107%7chdmi-2.0%2bfct_video-output_2107%7chdmi-1.4a&N=4028759644&

    …there must be a suitable one among the many available models, right? I guess the criteria are:

    – Can handle the 480pX2 and at least one of the 240pX3/4/5 resolutions
    – Can handle the off-spec refresh rates and/or wobbly sync of the SNES/NES, AES, region modded PS1/MD etc.
    – Doesn’t introduce more than the unavoidable ~1 frame of lag
    – Introduces no artifacts like ringing from a non-optional sharpening filter
    – Recovers quickly from video mode changes
    – Aspect ratio control (bonus points for shift & zoom)
    – Spits out standard 1080p60
    – Perhaps a pass-through mode that one can engage for resolution + refresh combinations that are natively supported by the display
    – Bonus points for a high-quality & fast deinterlacer
    – Doesn’t cost X times as much as the OSSC

    Is there any affordable, in-production box out there that would basically make the full features of the OSSC work on any TV?

    (How about the Framemeister? ;-))

    #17471

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Firebrand X is actually experimenting with OSSC + FM and getting some good results, seems a little overkill to me though.

    Basically there’s nothing out there because there’s no big demand, most TVs processing is adequate these days.

    #17472

    SirRockALot
    Participant

    The support threads are full of people who can’t get a certain console in general or the 240pX3/4/5 & 480pX2 modes to work on their particular display. Your own recent articles states that 480pX2 has ‘low compatibility’. I also wouldn’t expect this situation to get any better, if not worse, as there are less and less reasons for TV manufacturers to test with off-spec refresh rates etc. in a world where 99% of the devices will output nothing but standard video signals. If I bought a new TV right now there’d be a very good chance that certain devices or video modes would stop working. Even a firmware update for your TV could break compatibility and lock you out of one of your consoles. Having the option of buying an additional processor that would guarantee full compatibility with any TV would be hugely helpful. What do people do who can’t get their SNES to work with their TV? Just never play SNES again and hope their next TV works better? 😉 They would certainly like to have such a product. There are plenty of HDMI-to-HDMI video processors out there (see link), I was just asking if somebody had a good experience with any of them.

    #17473

    Harrumph
    Participant

    Of the items on that link, only a few are under $100, most are several 100s, and many are $1000s! With that assortment, you are still better off finding an old DVDO… Or simply buy a TV known for good compatibility.

    I agree that this panacea machine of compatibility would be great if it existed, but unfortunately I don’t think it ever will exist unless it actually comes from the community itself (similarly to the origin of the OSSC and other such “retro-fan” devices).

    There was some hope around the DVDO Micro for a bit, but it could never reliably do x3, iirc it also had problems with ringing and very poor deinterlacing. You can search the shmups forum for info, it’s in the OSSC thread in a couple places.

    Edit: I will admit that Kramer VP-424 does look interesting, still though over $300…

    #17475

    SirRockALot
    Participant

    The TV situation is very tricky. People report things like firmware updates braking compatibility, and even the compatibility chart / thread is not that helpful as very often people couldn’t test a lot of consoles. The compatibility report might look good, but maybe they never tested a SNES, region converted Mega Drive, AES etc.

    If you are in that situation, the only real choice left is probably to buy a Framemeister (as long as that’s still an option…), so even a 250$ video processor might be a cheaper alternative. I read reading good things about this box:

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1161645-REG/a_neuvideo_ani_hpnhn_ani_hpnh_hdmi_to_hdmi.html

    No personal experience. Maybe buying ~10 of these boxes from a place with a good return policy like Amazon and trying them out would make for a compelling live stream 😉

    #17478

    Harrumph
    Participant

    Hmm $170, yeah that sounds better.
    Btw I searched shmups and just a few days ago Xer Xian mentioned he had bought a Kramer vp-424 to test.

    #17484

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    I agree that this panacea machine of compatibility would be great if it existed, but unfortunately I don’t think it ever will exist unless it actually comes from the community itself (similarly to the origin of the OSSC and other such “retro-fan” devices).

    Right, you’re still talking a niche product, OSSC has been super successful for us, but it doesn’t do the numbers that would make any of the bigger manufacturers interested.

    #17485

    SirRockALot
    Participant

    Might be worth also discussing scalers there, yes. Would of course be highly interested to see if he likes the Kramer unit.

    I think the wrong assumption here is that a device has to be specifically designed for the OSSC to be the ideal companion for it. Many TVs have basically perfect compatibility with the OSSC and I very much doubt that’s the result of intentionally engineering it to be that way. There very well might be a video processor that just happens to be tolerant to all of the resolutions and refresh rates we need and has no other flaws like high processing lag.

    #17486

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Processing lag isn’t a concern for video material so these days when memory is cheap it’s unlikely there will be another DVDO type design by chance, sadly.

    #17487

    SirRockALot
    Participant

    Maybe we can get these guys

    http://www.marseilleinc.com/mcable-gaming-edition/

    to make a special OSSC HDMI cable? 😉

    #17492

    James
    Participant

    I went down this road with a DVDO and in the end just bought a new TV. I miss the DVDO’s pan/zoom controls but don’t miss the random extra lag, poor 480p scaling, random lockup’s or the feeling it could break at any moment 😂

    #17495

    SirRockALot
    Participant

    Yeah, that’s why I asked for a product that’s in-production and supported. I kinda have the opposite problem as you as my current setup is working nicely, but I’ve been looking for a new TV since some time and am a bit wary about compatibility issues :/

    #17497

    James
    Participant

    I went with a MU7000 Samsung (MU8000 in the US) and I’m super happy with it. Low lag, great compatability with the ossc and excellent motion (for an LCD). I wouldn’t recommend it to most people though as it has no local dimming leading to substandard HDR. This isn’t an issue for me as I only use it for x360/ps3 and earlier gaming.

    #17506

    ErebusMaligan
    Participant

    Just thought I would chime in here since I have used the A-Neuvideo processor you linked as well as DVDO solutions.

    You can find those A-Neu processors on ebay for around $140 or less (I’m selling my own there since I replaced it with a DVDO machine, but I got it off ebay originally as well for around 140 from another seller). In terms of performance, I didn’t have it hooked up long enough to do extensive testing. The one thing I can say for sure, is that it was able to make a very unstable SNES 3x signal that I couldn’t get my capture card to work on without extreme stutter, play perfectly smooth and upscale to 1080p. So it certainly works as a signal conformer to some degree. I didn’t notice tearing or significant lag, but I really didn’t test it much, because I ended up getting a dvdo edge probably a week later. The main thing it lacked that I (knew about beforehand, but later decided I wanted), was pan/zoom functionality.

    I have used a DVDO edge and am currently using a DVDO duo, and both can make higher than 2x work for sure. With the DVDO duo I have everything 240p working at 4x and I prefer that. Sometimes the SNES was dropping out for a second at completely random intervals (sometimes 30 or 40 minutes would go by and then a dropout) I haven’t sat and played it long enough since tweaking the settings last to see if I have fixed this. I personally was able to get two dvdo duos from the same seller on ebay for around 160-180 with some random cables, each. This was some kind of business liquidator who has sold a few of them during the time I was looking. Unfortunately other than that, they seem to go for closer to 4-500 USD.

    I also already owned a Framemeister before ever owning the OSSC. Quite honestly I never use it anymore. I prefer the OSSC + DUO combination, but the price was about the same in the end. I never tried running the ossc to the framemeister… i thought the hdmi inputs on the framemesiter are passthrough only?

    The framemeister is really the best option for compatibility of all things, especially since it handles composite/svideo if you need those. The only thing I have still running on s-video is a 3DO i rarely play, but I would still use the framemeister for that. The noise in solid colors on the framemeister really really bugged me on SNES games, which was the reason I ever looked for an alternative.

    It really just depends on what quirks you can deal with, and how much hassle you are willing to tolerate for the various options. None of them are perfect. But there really isn’t a single low cost solution if your OSSC doesn’t work the way you want with your display.

    #17517

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Can you confirm if the Duo has the same high input lag bug with some sources (Saturn, Megadrive) that the Edge does?

    I went down this road with a DVDO and in the end just bought a new TV. I miss the DVDO’s pan/zoom controls but don’t miss the random extra lag, poor 480p scaling, random lockup’s or the feeling it could break at any moment 😂

    I can’t see the ringing on the DVDO at normal viewing distance, besides if you feed it 3x or 4x then it’s much better anyway. If it was randomly locking up though I think you had a faulty unit. There’s plenty of quirks but I’ve never known mine to lock up.

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