Menu

RF, Composite, S-Video, solution?

Home Forums OSSC OSSC – Discussion and support RF, Composite, S-Video, solution?

This topic contains 31 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  BuckoA51 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 32 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #19370

    James-F
    Participant

    The are more than a few consoles that output only Encoded NTSC/PAL video, mainly the NES and N64.
    I think it is important to keep a console stock without modding it for rgb for preservation.

    Googling “Pal Ntsc Decoder” I see there a lot of IC’s options by different companies (TVP5150AM1-EP) but all of them output according to BT.656 standard of Digital YCbCr 4:2:2, still, a quality decoder can output excellent video quality even in 4:2:2 which the Framemeister does.

    How feasible is it to whip a top notch product like the OSSC that accepts encoded NTSC/PAL video signal like Composite or S-Video and outputs quality YCbCr to feed the OSSC, even though the digital YCbCr needs to be converter back to analog with another IC before the OSSC?

    I believe a product like this is definitely in demand.

    #19376

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    I, too, would like to see some kind of community solution for composite, S-Video, and even RF. Unfortunately, until that happens, I think the only solutions are to either get your consoles modified to output RGB and/or HDMI or to track down an RGB/YPbPr decoder, like the Kramer FC-4044 (which I use) or FC-4040. (The Kramer VM-19N and its apparent badge-engineered versions, like the CVG-19 or OMX-6006 might be old enough to handle 240p properly, but I haven’t bothered to invest in any of them for testing.)

    #19389

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    I’ve been trying for several months. We found a company in the US that was willing to make us some, but their prototype didn’t work with 240p (same as the Lindy/generic one that Amazon carry).

    Most of the ICs that were around are no longer in production.

    #19391

    James-F
    Participant

    Feeding the Y (green) on the OSSC with Composite (or luma from S-Video) results in excellent picture with proper 240p handling but monochrome.
    We only need to figure out how to feed only the PbPr part into the OSSC, maybe from a different converter… 😉
    A delay between the Y signal and PbPr signals may result in some color error ghosting in moving objects but that needs to be tested.

    @nmalinoski
    Try splitting the Composite signal from the console to the FC-4044 AND to the Y input of the OSSC, and PbPr outputs from the FC-4044 to the OSSC.
    If the FC-4044 has no delay when converting to YPbPr, this should work like magic.
    Please report.

    @buckoa51
    Do you still have the Composite/S-Video to YPbPr from Amazon?

    #19397

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    No I returned that adapter some time ago. I use a Sony YR-3000 at the moment but disappointingly that only supports PAL.

    #19398

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    Try splitting the Composite signal from the console to the FC-4044 AND to the Y input of the OSSC, and PbPr outputs from the FC-4044 to the OSSC.
    If the FC-4044 has no delay when converting to YPbPr, this should work like magic.
    Please report.

    I’m not sure I understand the point of this exercise. If the decoder already splits Y from composite, why bother running composite directly to Y on the OSSC?

    #19399

    James-F
    Participant

    Simple, most ebay boxes deinterlace a 240p signal while the OSSC handles it properly, the PbPr are less important for proper signal.
    Can you please try with your FC-4044? Split the Composite and feed the OSSC only PbPr.

    If my assumption works, this ebay box might be enough:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Composite-Video-to-RGsB-RGB-Component-Video-Converter/

    #19402

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    So I didn’t route composite+PbPr directly to the OSSC–it went through my Audio Authority 1154A–but otherwise wired as requested.

    So it works, but there’s a nasty hatch effect that I don’t get from the FC-4044. Photos

    #19406

    James-F
    Participant

    Thank you.

    I think it is noisy because the Y (luma) signal should be clean since the YPbPr matrix decodes the colors in comparison to it, while Composite has noisy chroma signal alongside luma so the YPbPr decoding matrix produces errors.
    Using the same method with S-Video will produce better results.

    Composite:
    Composite

    Luma (from S-Video):
    S-Video

    Till a proper Composite/S-Video decoder comes around, The Y input on the OSSC can be used for testing Composite/S-Video or even playing in black and white.

    #19408

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    Well, yes, S-Video would look better, because the Y in YC is the same as in YPbPr.

    #19409

    James-F
    Participant

    I wonder how it would look with PbPr from the ebay decoder since its Y is always 480i no matter the input, but we completely bypass its Y and take only the PbPr which might be okay for 240p signal.
    Also, if the decoder has some delay how would the produced error would look like in motion (ie. side scrolling)?

    EDIT:
    http://zone.ni.com/reference/en-XX/help/370524P-01/siggenhelp/generating_composite_video_signals/
    Just by looking at this, I can tell that if the PbPr is not perfectly aligned with Y, the result will be trash.
    The colors can lag after luma which will be clearly visible in motion, and shifted horizontally which will look just wrong.
    So using a separate PbPr from a digital decoder which adds lag is a big NO, but analog decoder might be okay.

    EDIT2:
    I just noticed that there is a chroma shift in your images which clearly visible in the red drop near the CD letters.
    So even analog decoders have some minimal delay which is enough to make the image worse than plain B&W.

    Once again, until marqs whips a proper decoder, B&W will do.

    #19757

    James-F
    Participant

    It seems as of now the best solution for encoded signal such as RF, Composite, S-Video to decode to RGB or Component is a DVD Recorder.

    I just grabbed european Sony RDR-GX210 from eBay which has plenty of encoded input/output options and most importantly Scart RGB and Component outputs, plus many deconding enhancements in the menu (which add lag).
    Since it is a PAL device I don’t know yet if it will decode NTSC signal in color or not.

    I will report how it works with the OSSC as soon as it arrives.

    RDR-_GX210

    #19782

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Indeed this might be a good solution although I wonder if NTSC will work on a PAL DVD recorder?

    #20118

    James-F
    Participant

    It has arrived.

    240p is always deinterlaced.
    All input signal treated as PAL, so 240p NTSC signal flickers like crazy and stutters.
    480i PAL 60 (PS2) has no color.
    Not recommended at all.

    Hopefully marqs has something in the cooker.

    #20148

    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    🙁

    Nothing “in the cooker” at the moment I’m afraid.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 32 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.