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Line doubling Wii blurry

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Aastapp 2 days, 1 hour ago.

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  • #24518

    Aastapp
    Participant

    Hi

    I’m at a loss with my Ossc and getting it toook good with my Wii. It’s a PAL wii connected via component cable set to output 480p. When i set it to line double (960p) on both my Samsung 1080 and Hisense 4k TV the menu is so blurry. I was expecting to see sharp pixels but I am not getting that at all. I have messd around with settings for ages but nothing seems to work. The input on the OSSC is 525p not sure if that is messing it up. Does anyone have any suggestions I’m at a loss. Maybe my component cable is rubbish?

    Thanks in advance sorry its so vague. I can try and post pics or certain settings if it helps.

    #24519

    BlueStinger
    Participant

    the “525p” is normal, OSSC shows the number on lines, not the resolution so, “525 lines progressive scan” = 480p
    You can check if the “Allow upsample2x” setting is set to ON in the “Sampling Opt.” menu. If so, try OFF to see if it improves things (less “analog-esque” look).

    Are you sure the 480p is set to 2x ? and not another output resolution ? Check on your TV itself, probably the “info” button to see what is the resolution your TV receives.

    #24520

    Aastapp
    Participant

    Tried that and couldn’t really tell the difference between on and off.

    I have tried pass through and 2x. Pass through looks much better I was just hoping to be able to line double. From videos I’ve seem of the OSSC online it’s just weird how bad it looks on my TVs.

    Thanks for the reply

    #24521

    BlueStinger
    Participant

    What cable are you using ? Is it a good one ? Is it shielded ?
    Honestly, don’t give up just yet, if you say it looks better in passthroug AND that you like sharp pixels, then it means something is up with your setup.

    If you feed 480p to your TV, your TV is going to try to “improve” the picture. From up close, you should see some pixels getting rounded and some “stair case” being smooth down. In 480p x2 (960p), you tv upscaling “improvements” shouldn’t be as bad and you should see almost perfectly square pixels.

    If I were you, I would check the sampling options, here what it should be for a Pal Wii :
    H.active: 640 in 4:3 mode,
    720 in 16:9 mode,

    H.samplerate: 858 for both 4:3 & 16:9 modes

    Then use the “backporch” option to adjust the position of the picture, if needed.

    Don’t give up yet, if your 480p looks better than your 960p, then it’s not normal. Have you any other 480p console to try ? Another cable ?

    EDIT: and make sure your TV is set to “game mode”, de-activate all remaining post-processes etc. Try to find the “zero” value for the sharpness (it’s NOT necessarily zero…)

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  BlueStinger.
    #24523

    BlueStinger
    Participant

    I’m still looking into it, try to set these settings as followed :
    HDMI ITC = ON (hinting the dispaly that video filtering should not be applied)
    Analog Sync LPF = 2.5MHz Max
    480p in sampler = AUTO
    YPbPr input Color Space = REC .709

    I’ll keep digging up some info, I don’t have a Wii myself, so I need to rely on what’s on the forum

    #24525

    Aastapp
    Participant

    Thanks again for looking into it

    All the setting you have suggested match the defaults. I was wondering if the cable could be to blame it was cheap on amazon but then the normal 480 looks okay.

    Maybe my expectations are just wrong. To me it just looks rubbish, messing about with the setting and switching between 2x I also noticed that 2x also also looks washed out

    I don’t think I have another 480 source to try. All older consoles or PAL

    #24526

    BlueStinger
    Participant

    Again, I don’t think the issue comes from you, expecting something unrealistic, you’ve said : “I was expecting to see sharp pixels”
    To some people, sharp pixels are a disadvantage and I get that some people could be disappointed by the OSSC, thinking it would make their games higher native resolution or something. But you seem to know what is the purpose of the OSSC and you’ve also stated that “480 looks blurrier than 960”, so that’s a bit odd.

    Nintendo console historically had bad video outputs and the Wii isn’t an exception. There is some color bleeding around the blue and the red on Wii.

    Check this video from MyLifeInGaming, they talk about NGC games on the Wii starting on the 18 minutes mark. Maybe you can get some relevant info out of this video. (and also give you an idea of what to expect for you)

    So, it maybe a combination of : cheap cable + bad video quality out of the box (+ probably a lack of fine tuning) and the OSSC making these flaws worse. You should look into the sampling options using this as a starting point : http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=Optimal_timings
    and watch at least one of FireBrandX’s videos on the subject : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBStHr4XCTg
    This should make these settings less scary if you’re not familiar with them already. And also check his website : http://www.firebrandx.com/osscprofiles.html
    He posts his findings there, this guy (if you’ve never heard of him) is really well respected in this community and rightly so. I guess you could use his NGC settings for your Wii as a starting point.

    Also, don’t hesitate to ask around in a few days, I’m not the most knowledgeable around here but it’s a bit of a special period with the holidays, there are usually more people around here. So, expect more info from others once the holidays are over, this forum is usually more helpful than I am ^-^

    #25535

    sparks_mandrill
    Participant

    Bringing this thread back to life. I have a Sony x900e (4k tv) and am suffering from the same symptoms as OP. Wonder if he ever got his issues resolved.

    BlueStinger, any additional recommendations? I’ve confirmed everything you’ve suggested and it didn’t improved. To maybe describe in different terms, its both pixelated AND blurry… which probably doesnt really help. It’s almost simply more of a clarity issue.

    #25591

    Aastapp
    Participant

    Hi

    Never got is resolved no. Messed with everything I could. Kinda feel that it might be a shit output from the WII, are you also using a WII? I am planning to try another 480p source soon. It seems fine for 240p so hopefully not an issue with the unit.

    Thanks

    #25595

    BlueStinger
    Participant

    I bought myself a Wii last month and I’m not that interested in the Wii so I bought a very cheap component cable on Ebay. I got surprisingly great results, so great that I’m not even planning on searching for a better cable. Honestly, I don’t know what to tell you, I got great results from the get go and I’ve had very little adjustments to make.

    Though it made my understand why the guys from MLiG said : “Nintendo doesn’t have the greatest video quality” I’m paraphrasing and they were talking about the NGC, Wii and WiiU if I recall correctly. Maybe what you see is the best you can get from a Wii (and for that price) or you just don’t like how 480p looks in line doubled mode, a lot of people seem to prefer passthrough for 480p content.

    In case you’re interested, I bought this one : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-HIGH-QUALITY-GOLD-PLATED-HD-COMPONENT-AV-TV-VIDEO-CABLE-FOR-NINTENDO-WII/350839984136?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
    It’s only £3.74 including shipping, so it might worth trying just to see if your cable has an issue.

    I was really surprised by the results I got with such a cheap cable.

    #25596

    Aastapp
    Participant

    I think I have the same one, dammit.

    What version of the Wii do you have?

    Thanks

    #25597

    Harrumph
    Participant

    Wii is blurry on the horizontal axis however you do. This is because the internal frame buffer is maximally 640px wide, which is then stretched (interpolated, thus “blurred”) to the output 720×480 frame, where it normally takes up 686 of the full 720px width (at least in widescreen, I didn’t measure in 4:3 mode, but it should be the same). Additionally, the maximal height of the internal frame buffer is reportedly 528px, meaning that some games may even interpolate on the vertical (although I don’t know how common that is or if it was even a thing).

    EDIT: actually I checked the excellent list of Gamecube games internal/external resolutions here, and it seems vertical interpolation was very rare (actually non-existant for NTSC titles and only occasionally for PAL game). I would assume the situation is the same for Wii games.
    For reference, the actual height of visible video was 456 lines for all games I’ve tested (as well as the dashboard) except for Metroid Prime 3 (448 lines high).

    To summarize, the search for immaculate “sharp pixel” Wii output is a dead end, and actually counterproductive as the horizontal smoothing process was very intentional to improve the appearance of these still pre-HD games.

    • This reply was modified 2 days, 1 hour ago by  Harrumph.
    #25599

    Aastapp
    Participant

    Great answer cheers

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