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Question regarding SNES PAL consoles

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  BonzoBits 3 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
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  • #13444

    Revan
    Participant

    Hello, I’ve just ordered the OSSC v1.6 today and I’m looking forward to using it but I’m a complete newbie regarding which cables I need to use.
    So I’ve checked the My life in gaming video and it states that the 1chip consoles are csync ready with 1chip-01 & 1chip-02, but a few other posts have said that csync will not work with any PAL console at all regardless of the motherboard revision?

    EDIT: And another note I’ve also heard that the csync mods will not work with PAL consoles as they have a different voltage? Does this mean that the sync on luma is the only option to use for PAL SNES?

    #13470

    Harrumph
    Participant

    Right, no PAL SNES revision has csync output afaik.
    http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#snes

    So sync on luma is the best one can get natively, and there should be no quality difference to csync (i.e. no crosshatching like one risks with poorly shielded cable and composite video sync).

    However, you can get csync by putting in an rgb bypass board, e.g. the one designed by borti.

    #13476

    Revan
    Participant

    Will the bypass board work on pal? I’ve checked retroRGB and some pages have indicated in bold text saying some csync mods are not compatible with PAL consoles unless I’ve misread it?

    Anyway thanks for clearing it up, trying to find a 1chip console in Australia is a pain in the butt because I found at least 5 ebay sellers selling a 1chip without the knowledge of its revision.

    #13505

    Harrumph
    Participant
    #13507

    paulb_nl
    Participant

    Keep in mind that if you install Borti’s bypass board in a PAL console then you need to buy a NTSC RGB cable. If you buy a NTSC CSYNC cable and accidentally plug the cable in an unmodded PAL console then it will output 12volt instead of CSYNC. That might damage the device you connect it to.

    I recommend you just buy a PAL luma sync cable and if needed do the simple brightness mod if you buy a 1-CHIP console.

    Another option is the HDRetrovision component cable that works with PAL and NTSC consoles and have a brightness switch for too bright 1-CHIP consoles.

    #13508

    Revan
    Participant

    Yeah I’ve read the key-points on Borti’s mod, the brightness mod from what I seen in a few test videos was mostly on a 1chip-03 console but I can only find 1chip-01 consoles here in Australia on ebay, I don’t a 1chip-03 or even 02 on PAL AU consoles even exists.

    I’ve already ordered the Sync on luma from retrocablesuk plus another sync on luma for the PS2, I just hope the csync mod will be back in stock soon.

    By the way, if I don’t have a good TV/Monitor will a elgato capture card (PCIe) just do?

    #14295

    BonzoBits
    Participant

    I wanna hijack this thread with a question also, regarding PAL SNES. Might help the OP too 🙂

    Is there any combination of settings on the OSSC that can change the video output to the NTSC equivalent. IE, any way to unsquash the PAL signal or have the OSSC alter it so that a display will ID it as a 240 signal and handle it accordingly?

    I just bought a PAL SNES and in line double mode it’s ID’d by my TV as 576p. It’s looks OK but I can’t use Lx3/4 which I can on the same TV with. SNES mini.

    #14296

    Revan
    Participant

    I believe your talking about the 50hz/60hz issue with pal regions right? Most pal consoles run on a 50hz instead of 60 despite being able to do it and most consumers had crt’s that support pal60 back then anyway. Pal consoles like the n64 run in a higher resolution but have less fps than ntsc, but I’m not so sure when it comes with the snes since its running in 50hz?

    You have to mod your console if you want to fix the issue because not only the image is squished but its also roughly 17% slower. My modder told me to be careful since modding a 50 to 60hz pal console can cause timing issues on upscalers or HDTV’s since it causes flickering but since the OSSC is technically something different in nature it might not be a problem, I’ve also acquired a Sony PVM 14m4a recently and I’ve read that this won’t be an issue on crts.

    Even if you get your console to 60hz you might come into compatibility problems if your using a pal cartridge such as starfox (Starwing) which is why I’m saving up to get the sd2snes to play ntsc roms.

    Since I’ve created this thread to figure out which cables I need so far I’ve recently got a csync cable for the xbox and playing in pal60 mode is fantastic its a shame that the ps2 doesn’t have this.

    However I’m still confused when it comes with the n64, I was planning on modding my n64 with the ultrahdmi kit but its too expensive and my modder told me its not worth it so I went with etims board but retrogamingcables only have ntsc cables under their n64 page. Etims site shows a guide where the rgb mod kit can be configured to be used with a gamecube cable? If so should I just grab a pal csync gamecube cable if the n64 does allow csync if the board is installed?

    Sorry for the huge post, thought I might give an update to what I’ve been testing recently.

    #14310

    Harrumph
    Participant

    @BonzoBits
    Yes, I describe in the Tips & tweaks thread how to get 720p 50Hz (in Lx3 obviously). You need to reduce V.Active to 240 and increase V.Backporch as needed. Ofc, ymmv as the display needs to be able to handle having the excess lines in the backporch.
    As I don’t have an OSSC currently, I haven’t tested this with recent firmware, where V.Frontporch can also be adjusted. Depending on display, I imagine it could be better to divide the porch increase more evenly into both front- and backporch.

    I doubt you can achieve correct AR in Lx2 though, since 480p 50Hz is not standard.

    #14313

    BonzoBits
    Participant

    I’m referring to a different aspect of the PAL signal – the number of lines of resolution.

    PAL’s 288 lines means that I can only use linedouble mode with the OSSC on my TV. This is because the TV accepts 576p images (2 x 288, aka linedouble) but not 864 (linetriple) or 1152 (linequadruple). The higher linemulti modes give sharper images, which I prefer.

    This TV can do linetriple and linequadruple for NTSC signals (240 lines), so I’m curious if the OSSC’s advanced timing tweaker can be used to change the signal so that it is recognised as an NTSC signal.

    It’s more of a question for Marqs or Harrumph, as they are quite familiar with this kind of stuff.

    Also, Revan, if you prefer a clearer, brighter image and aren’t too attached to your PAL SNES, I highly recommend getting your hands on a SNES Mini or Super Famicom Jr. They have the clearest RGB output and lx3/4/5 modes via OSSC have greater compatibility with HD displays.

    #14314

    Revan
    Participant

    I’ve already tested my pal 1chip console on my sony pvm and I think its already looking good, to be honest the jump between 1chip-01 to Snes Jr isn’t that big compared to a 2chip to 1chip. Hench why I want to get it modded for 60hz. Maybe once I’ve acquired the OSSC and have modded my n64 for rgb output I might consider acquiring a snes jr but only after when those rgb amps become available. I was thinking of installing the amp on the pal 1chip but using sync on luma is just fine.

    #14322

    BonzoBits
    Participant

    Oh you have a 1-chip. Lucky you 🙂

    My 2-chip PAL machine actually looks completely shit (really dull) and not very sharp. Maybe once I try out Harrumph’s tweak for linetriple it would look nice.

    @harrumph. I missed your reply, awesome find about PAL. I’ll give it a go once I repair the PAL machine. I took it apart to give it a clean and now it’s not giving any picture. Whoops…

    #14334

    Revan
    Participant

    Forgive my ignorance I’ve just realized about the fact that pal consoles give more lines (resolution), since there’s a possible fix for the snes from harrumph which is great but would a pal ps1 and n64 be affected with using the OSSC on line triple mode? I know the pal ps1 can play ntsc due to being a software design compared to hardware with the snes, the same might for the n64 if using an everdrive I think?

    Edit: Oh btw forget that question I’ve asked about what scart cable type to use on the n64, Tim worthington rgb board has a guide for installation with for scart types by choice so I’ll have to make sure my modder sees it.

    #14336

    BonzoBits
    Participant

    The fix applies for the PAL signal format and is not console specific. So it should work for the PS and N64. There may be compatibility issues with displays, but I’m not in a position to speak from experience. I took the broken PAL SNES apart last night (well, both of them :-() and still no video so I’ll have to take a proper look into compatibility of the PAL lx3 hack in a few weeks time.

    #14395

    shpongo
    Participant

    I have a csync cable from retrogamingcables and a PAL SNES console and it works just fine…
    Currently I’m using a cheap enough RGB upscaler from Amazon (ordered the OSSC).
    Why wouldn’t my cable work when using an OSSC?

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