Menu

Tips & Tweaks: Lx3, Lx4, Lx5 modes

Home Forums OSSC OSSC – Discussion and support Tips & Tweaks: Lx3, Lx4, Lx5 modes

This topic contains 177 replies, has 46 voices, and was last updated by  Harrumph 21 hours, 11 minutes ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 166 through 178 (of 178 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #28128

    CesarDRK
    Participant

    I have a Sony KDL-60W855B (W850B in the US), and I’m stuck at 2x also, unfortunately.

    That’s a shame, because the TV actually support those resolutions in PC (DVI? mode) (copyed from the manual):

    (Resolution, horizontal freq/vertical freq)
    640 x 480, 31,5 kHz/60 Hz
    800 x 600, 37,9 kHz/60 Hz
    1024 x 768, 48,4 kHz/60 Hz
    1280 x 768, 47,4 kHz/60 Hz and 47,8 kHz/60 Hz
    1360 x 768, 47,7 kHz/60 Hz
    1280 x 1024, 64,0 kHz/60 Hz
    1920 x 1080, 67,5 kHz/60 Hz

    3x and 5x modes for 240p content should be possible.

    #28323

    blinky56
    Participant

    Using the optimal timings from junkerhq

    There is no entry for the Sega Master System’s 256×192 resolution.

    Any have any information on the best timings for that system?

    #28328

    Harrumph
    Participant

    Should be the same as most other 256px modes, 341 or there about (e.g. Genesis/MD is 342).

    #28452

    chmcarro
    Participant

    I just performed the RGB mod on my NTSC N64 and connected to my 60″ 1080P HDTV via SNES Composite Sync SCART to the OSSC – I was able to output 480i in pass-through, 480P in 2x, 720P in 3x, 1280×1024 in 4x (is this right? I thought it would 4×240 not 4×256?), and 1080P cropped in 5x.

    All options look more pixelated/dithered/blocky than what I was hoping to see. I attribute this to a couple things:

    1. Personal exposure to better 3D graphics has altered my perception of how immersive the 3D graphics look on this system
    2. The large 60″ screen is the biggest contributing factor to why the visuals are “poor” compared to smaller displays common to this era

    I think I might have a more enjoyable experience if I was able to produce a 2x (480p) or 3x(720p) scanline image in a 1080P frame for pixel-perfect presentation (with very large black bars around the dot-for-dot image) effectively shrinking my screen. Is there a guide or output method so I may “shrink” my output for this effect?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  chmcarro.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  chmcarro.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  chmcarro.
    #28457

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    I just performed the RGB mod on my NTSC N64…

    Which RGB mod? The simple bypass, Tim Worthington’s, or one of Borti’s?

    1280×1024 in 4x (is this right? I thought it would 4×240 not 4×256?)

    On the OSSC, line4x 240p results in 960p; it’s possible your display is either interpreting 960p as or windowboxing it to 1280×1024, but I don’t believe that’s what the OSSC would be outputting.

    I think I might have a more enjoyable experience if I was able to produce a 2x (480p) or 3x(720p) scanline image in a 1080P frame for pixel-perfect presentation (with very large black bars around the dot-for-dot image) effectively shrinking my screen. Is there a guide or output method so I may “shrink” my output for this effect?

    The OSSC lacks a framebuffer, so it is unable to letterbox or windowbox (the effect you’re looking for). You’ll either need a display or a secondary video processor that can windowbox (both will add lag).

    One idea would be to get a 4K display and do a line3x to 720p, which would be a straight 3x scale to 4K that likely would not screw with your scanlines.

    #28462

    chmcarro
    Participant

    Which RGB mod? The simple bypass, Tim Worthington’s, or one of Borti’s?

    Retrofix’s N64 RGB Upgrade Kit (simple THS7316 amp on an early US N64). I should have gone with another board design. I did not integrate the N64’s Csync into the mod board as this board does not have a c-sync jumper or C-sync solder point. I’m using an unshielded Chinese SNES NTSC SCART cable. The OSSC is getting sync in RGBS format with component video sync. There’s no discernible difference in OSSC sync LPF options and from my eye test I don’t see any jailbars, sync stuttering, or discoloration so I feel fortunate in this regard. I’m not sure what improvement I would see from a sync on luma or shielded cable, but perhaps I am mistaken.

    I believe a UltraHDMI, Tim Worthington’s or Borti’s de-blur option would NOT alleviate what I’ve described as a dithered/blocky image. From what I understand, that would actually be more blocky as it get’s a sharper image and removes some anti-aliasing.

    Reducing my TV’s sharpness setting to 0 has assisted to some degree, but comparing to Youtube videos on a laptop screen my 60″ 1080P TV is producing a blockier image with more visible dithering.

    The 1280×1024 TV mode when OSSC is outputting 4x does appear to be windowboxing.

    I’m not sure I’m following you on the 4K suggestion because wouldn’t that still be a large full screen image?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  chmcarro.
    #28465

    nmalinoski
    Participant

    The OSSC is getting sync in RGBS format with component video sync.

    That would be composite video; component is something different.

    The 1280×1024 TV mode when OSSC is outputting 4x does appear to be windowboxing.

    Then that’s something your display is doing; as I said, the OSSC is incapable of windowboxing. I’m a little surprised that it would do that for 960p, since that’s not something typically found on consumer televisions (as far as I’m aware, anyway).

    I’m not sure I’m following you on the 4K suggestion because wouldn’t that still be a large full screen image?

    Yes. The point of doing that is because 720p output from the OSSC would scale evenly to 4K, but not 1080p; and, someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but integer scaling like that is pretty good at preserving scanlines, while uneven scaling almost always screws them up.

    Alternatively, you could try playing without scanlines. 🙂

    #29844

    ViraLicious
    Participant

    Hey there!

    I’ve been creating my own optimal timings profiles lately. So far I’ve been successful just dialing it all in using the checkerboard pattern method FirebrandX demonstrated in one of his YouTube videos. However, I’ve sort of hit a bit of wall. I’ve been trying to set up a 5X 1920×1080 profile for the PS1’s 384×240 resolution – but I can’t seem to get it right!

    From what I can gather, the correct samplerate seems hover around 487.5. But the main culprit and what I don’t get is that when I’ve zoned in on what seems to be the correct samplerate, I get an odd visual glitch in the shape of a long purple line that stretches vertically on the left side of the screen (a few pixels wide). When it appears no audio seems to be sent to the TV. I have been able to remove the line by increasing either H. synclen (37 – but tried other values) or H. Backporch. But whatever I do, I cannot center the image… It is always too far too the left.

    Every other X5 setting works fine with my TV (which is an OLED LG C9). FirebrandX’s X4 384×240 setting works just fine. And before you suggest it, I have minor OCD about having all my profiles in 5X. 😉 But if it doesn’t work, then I will just use FirebrandX’s profile.

    So… What am I missing? It’s driving me half mad!

    • This reply was modified 2 days, 7 hours ago by  ViraLicious.
    #29863

    ViraLicious
    Participant

    No one out there who can help me figure this out or at least point me in the right direction? 🙁

    #29865

    Retrorunner
    Participant

    I run into a similar problem trying to output 5x line (tried any mode 1600×1200, 1920×1200 and 1980×1080) with ps1 (PAL games) and oled lg c9. 4x line works fine.
    Here are the two problems:

    1. Switching 5x line sometimes the screen stays black or flickers and than goes black. Sometimes it works. So looks like a sync problem not sure. Any idea why it happens? I used different hdmi cable but same result.
    2. When I get a picture and the screen is cropped at the top and buttom so I try to adjust the v.active value. Setting a value above 240 the screen goes black and I get the message “format is not supported” from the tv. Any chance to fix it? Do I miss something? All other values with 5xline are set to default.

    edit: Ok all problems are related to pal games. ntsc works fine with x5 line.

    • This reply was modified 1 day, 23 hours ago by  Retrorunner.
    • This reply was modified 1 day, 23 hours ago by  Retrorunner.
    • This reply was modified 1 day, 21 hours ago by  Retrorunner.
    #29871

    Harrumph
    Participant

    @viralicious

    5x is less suitable for 384 opt mode because aspect is a bit too wide then.
    But if you don’t mind that and really wanna go for 5x mode, I suppose you can try H.Sync 36 and H.Backporch 56. That would bring the blanking area more in line with generic x5 mode.

    Actually, one thing you can also test is use generic x5 mode but lower the H.Samplerate to 1950 (reduce HSync and HBackporch as needed). If your display can show that image, it should also cope with 384×240 optimized mode. If it doesn’t, I think you are out of luck.

    And btw, you are using a NTSC console or a PAL console modded for 60Hz, right?

    @retrorunner

    For PAL signal, try to use x4 mode instead and do the tweaks for 1080p 50Hz, as described in the OP.

    #29872

    ViraLicious
    Participant

    @harrumph

    Thank you for your reply!

    I should’ve mentioned that I’m using a NTSC console.

    After your reply I fiddled around with the settings a bit more. I realized that I’ve been probably going about it somewhat wrong. I thought that the OSSC processed the image and the resolution so that it could output 1920×1080 even though 384×240 is somewhat of an odd resolution to convert. However, I played around with 1920×1200 instead since it’s effectively 5x of 384×240. But sadly I wasn’t able to get it to work properly. I guess there’s something I’m missing in terms of how to set up H. synclen and the H. Backporch. Whenever I get the image centered properly I also get the weird issue I mentioned with the purple line on the left side and no audio. But when I have the image shifted to the left so that about 7 pixels are missing on the left side, then it works fine! Kind of frustrating. My TV seems to handle the resolution fine otherwise. For example, when I have the samplerate set to 512 and H. synclen to 37 and H. Backproch to 53, then the image is perfectly centered and I have audio and no weird purple line glitch on the left side of the screen. But, then the samplerate is off so the pixels are flickering and stuff. But when I go to 487.80 then it doesn’t work and I have to move the picture too far to the left in order to get it stable etc. Even with 1920×1200.
    When I have 5x on but set it to output 1600×1200, it works perfectly fine though!

    Is there a place btw one can read up on how to calculate H. synclen and H. Backporch? Would like to understand that stuff a bit more in depth. 🙂

    • This reply was modified 23 hours, 47 minutes ago by  ViraLicious.
    #29875

    Harrumph
    Participant

    Information is a bit here and there, including in this thread.
    For just the minimal info:
    H.samplerate = h.active + h.blanking
    H.blanking = h.frontporch + h.sync + h.backporch

    In terms of how OSSC timing tweaker operates, the formula is reshuffled to
    H.frontporch = h.samplerate – (h.active + h.sync + h.backporch)
    and frontporch shouldnt be negative so h.samplerate > h.active + h.sync + h.backporch

    Additionally, 1920×1080/1200 x5 modes (targeting 1920 active width) is additionally modified internally as described by Marqs here:
    https://www.videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/v-backporch-increase-upper-limit/#post-11582

    Something in that process results in a signal your display doesn’t like. It can probably be worked out, but if 1600×1200 works as you say, I suggest just go with that and be happy. 🙂

    Now, to understand what is suitable sync and backporch lengths, you could google to read about analog & digital video signals. But just to get a feel for the approximate relation, you can check the default for e.g. x4 generic mode. H.sync is usually about 1/4 of total blanking.

Viewing 13 posts - 166 through 178 (of 178 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.