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XRGB Mini and TV Compatibility

Home Forums OSSC OSSC – Discussion and support XRGB Mini and TV Compatibility

This topic contains 8 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Jademalo 1 week ago.

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  • #12830

    Jademalo
    Participant

    Just got mine yesterday, finally!
    …And my capture card doesn’t support linetriple, nor does my TV 🙁
    I’m obviously disappointed, especially since it means I can’t use the 8:7 SNES ratio option which was something I had requested and was added.

    Does anyone have any advice on getting it working, or is it straight up new card/tv/DVDO?
    My capture card nearly manages to display the image occasionally showing a frame or two, but eventually it ends up with a no signal error.

    I tried running it through the Mini’s HDMI input, and interestingly the Mini let me use up to 4x mode even on the SNES. 5x mode seems like it might work with a bit of tweaking too since I can get the top left hand corner to display when the Mini is set to 720p, but I couldn’t get it to work properly.
    However, that obviously means everything is going through the Mini’s video processor… I don’t know enough about the inner workings of the mini, but I’m assuming that doing so brings with it all the caveats of the mini, such as the framebuffer lag and the extra noise on certain colours?
    There’s also the “direct” HDMI mode on the mini, which doesn’t improve the compatibility, but also doesn’t seem to be a true passthrough since the OSD is still there. Does an HDMI signal passed through the mini with direct mode on still go through the framebuffer? What exactly is the difference?

    I’ve tried the OSSC direct into the cap card and my TV as well, and still no dice sadly. My setup is pretty wonky just due to the position of everything, and honestly the easiest way to hook everything up right now is to use the Mini as a faux HDMI switch, lol.

    One thing I am a bit disappointed at though is the brief testing I did with the SNES hooked up directly in 2x mode was SUPER noisy. Blizzz also has a video that shows this noise being gone, but it’s very much there on my setup. In addition, the colours for the SNES are super weird, and the infamous bar down the middle is amplified to the absolute extreme. Where it was only visible on certain colours with the Mini, I can clearly see it almost all of the time through the OSSC. My SNES is a SNES Mini with the internal amplifier and csync.

    Also speaking of Blizzz, there are some absolutely perfectly crisp images from the OSSC on his site. Does anyone know what he uses to capture them, or are they modified in any way? The metal slug one on the review is absolutely perfect.
    And on those same lines, does anyone have any capture card advice?
    I’d rather go USB3 over PCI-E since I haven’t got the spare slots in my PC, but I’m open to either. The holy grail for me would be full 4:4:4 1080p60 capture, since I’ve always been bugged by a noticable amount of colour bleeding with my current one on pixel art games (Extremecap U3). And yes I know twitch and YouTube both re convert to 4:2:2, but I like to hold personal archives of recordings of certain things.
    I’ve been looking at the Magewell Pro Capture HDMI, but I can’t find any information on what OSSC modes it supports. Does anyone have either the PCIe or the USB3 versions who can give me any more info on this? I’ve been told they both use different chipsets, so if anyone can clarify both of them that would be awesome.

    Thanks!

    #12861

    marqs
    Participant

    Line2x optimized modes will be available in next fw (incl. 8:7 ratio), so that might help if your capture card (which model?) supports 768x480p.

    Weird colors and excessive noise indicate that there might be a problem with the internal video amp and/ore cable.

    #12862

    Jademalo
    Participant

    Oh nice, that’s awesome to hear!
    My cap card is an AverMedia Extremecap U3, so I think it supports 480 resolutions. It’s been pretty good honestly, I was surprised it didn’t like linetriple.

    The weird thing with my SNES is that it looks absolutely perfect on my BVM, and almost perfect on the Mini. You can sometimes see the famous white bar in the middle on the mini, but it’s only on very specific colours.
    With the OSSC, the bar is insanely obvious and visible all the time. It’s strange, I would expect the Mini to have these same problems if they were the SNES. Are there any tweaks I could do? I’ve already got the low pass filter on as high as it will go, and it doesn’t really help. Turning it off gives some pretty insane noise too.

    Thanks!

    #12863

    paulb_nl
    Participant

    You should test another device on the OSSC to see if its the SNES or OSSC causing the weird colors. Are the weird colors showing on your TV and capture card? Can you give more details about the RGB mod installed and which RGB cable you use?

    #12879

    Jademalo
    Participant

    Right, spent a whole night testing, got some interesting results!

    I dug out my old BenQ TN monitor, and hooked that directly up to the OSSC. Turns out it supports 5x on the SNES without any tweaking, so needless to say this monitor is a BEAST. It looks absolutely gorgeous, and was a great monitor for testing.

    I have a SNES mini with the internal RGB amp mod, with native csync. I’m planning on replacing it with a THS7374 mod, but I need to save up for that. The cable I’m using is from Retrogamingcables, and it seems perfect. I’ve got two identical cables from him, and both are exactly the same.

    Most of my initial testing was with Yoshi’s Island. In the first level, the game looked super washed out. The mountains in the background were also super, super blue, using the images on the sidebars of this site as a reference. HDMI colour space was set correctly, so it’s not that.
    It also had a huge amount of noise on those mountains, and the bar was extremely visible.

    I then switched to ALttP, and I was absolutely stunned. Once I got into the sewer, all of the colours were absolutely incredible. Pixels were sharp as anything, blacks were black, every colour was vibrant and there wasn’t a hint of noise.

    I then switched to Super Metroid, and again, it looked incredible. However, I remembered that when I was playing, the outside area next to your ship was particularly good at getting the bar and noise to show up.
    Sure enough, I jumped to the top of that big room area, and it was just noise city. The bar was extremely obvious, and all of the brown sky colours had extreme levels of noise. I did record a video of this, but as soon as I had turned everything off and put my games away, I went and accidentally deleted the video. Whoops.

    I tried my N64, and there was a bit of noise in the overscan area blacks. Unfortunately I couldn’t really find a good game that I could test with it.

    #12884

    paulb_nl
    Participant

    So the N64 was not too bright? It seems the brightness of your SNES is far too high. Are the RGB wires from the amp to the multi-out pins connected through 75 Ohm resistors? Can you run the 240p suite grey ramp test?

    You might also need to attenuate the RGB levels. I have a PAL 1-CHIP-02 that needed 750 Ohm resistors to ground on the RGB lines before it would show proper brightness on the OSSC. My Sony TV didn’t have a problem with the higher brightness when the SNES was directly connected but the OSSC is very strict about video levels.

    #12885

    Jademalo
    Participant

    I was under the impression that for spec, NTSC SNES consoles used 220uF capacitors on the RGB lines, not 75ohm resistors? My cable is made to the 220uF spec – http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#snes

    This is the weird thing though – ALttP was absolutely perfect. Blacks were black, greys were grey, and when I was in the sewer nothing looked washed out. Like it looks exactly like I would expect. Super metroid was the same aside from the noise on specific shades of brown – Every colour looked crisp and correct.
    This colour issue is only something apparent when playing Yoshi’s Island.

    This is readily apparent when the screen goes black too. Yoshi’s island is a murky mess of noise, whereas ALttP has maybe a slight light corner but nothing else noticeable.

    #12886

    paulb_nl
    Participant

    The capacitors are on the RGB cable. I was talking about inside the SNES. It needs 75 Ohm resistors from the amp to the pins. http://retrorgb.com/snesminisrgb.html

    Its strange that only Yoshi’s Island is washed out but Zelda in the sewer and Metroid are supposed to be quite dark aren’t they? The only other difference that I can think of is that Yoshi’s Island uses the FX chip which draws more power. Are you using an original power supply?

    #12888

    Jademalo
    Participant

    Oh right I’m with you. Yes, it does have the 75ohm resistors.

    This is what I’m thinking, it’s super strange. I’m from the UK, so I’ve got a custom power supply for it. It’s an old Atari Jaguar power supply with a SNES Mini end. I was told when I originally did the research that the output was the same, so it was a good one to use.

    I’m going to do some more tests and try and capture some images, but since my cap card can’t do linetriple it’s kinda hard.

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